CEimpact Podcast

Timely Updates in Pharmacy-Delivered Immunization Services

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With shifting policies, payment models, and an unpredictable respiratory virus landscape,  pharmacy teams need more than clinical updates to prepare for the upcoming immunization season. This episode explores key issues shaping immunization practice today — including policy changes, billing and documentation trends, and how teams can proactively adapt and advocate for their role. Tune in for timely insights that go beyond the clinical headlines and complement our in-depth, on-demand course, Annual Immunization Update 2025. 

HOST
Joshua Davis Kinsey, PharmD
VP, Education
CEimpact

GUEST
Elizabeth Skoy, PharmD
Professor
North Dakota State University 

Joshua Davis Kinsey and Elizabeth Skoy have no relevant financial relationships to disclose.
 
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CPE INFORMATION
Learning Objectives
Upon successful completion of this knowledge-based activity, participants should be able to:
1. Recognize recent policy and reimbursement updates that influence pharmacy-based immunization services and their potential to improve patient access to care.
2. Identify strategies pharmacy teams can use to prepare for the 2025-26 respiratory virus season in ways that support timely, equitable, and effective patient immunization.

0.05 CEU/0.5 Hr
UAN: 0107-0000-25-286-H01-P
Initial release date: 9/1/2025
Expiration date: 9/1/2026
Additional CPE details can be found here.

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Speaker 1:

Hey C-Impact subscribers, welcome to the Game Changers Clinical Conversations podcast. I'm your host, josh Kinsey, and as always, I'm excited about our conversation today. As immunization policies, reimbursement models and practice expectations shift, staying up to date is essential to ensure patients receive timely, accessible and high-quality vaccine care. In today's episode, we'll explore the key issues pharmacy teams should be watching now to be able to support their communities for the season ahead. It's great to have Elizabeth Skoy back with us today for this episode. Welcome back, elizabeth.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, josh, great to be here.

Speaker 1:

So for those that maybe didn't listen to your previous episode from just a few weeks ago, I'll put a plug in on it's on the OTC STI kits, so be sure to take a listen to that. But for those that maybe haven't heard that yet, they don't know you. So take a minute or two, elizabeth, and introduce yourself, and just let our listeners know a little bit about your background.

Speaker 2:

So I'm a community pharmacist, I would say, first and foremost, and then also I'm a professor at North Dakota State University School of Pharmacy. I have a still, like I said, a practicing community pharmacist where I provide a lot of immunizations. I'm one of the co-creators, as well as trainers, for the CE Impact Immunization Administration course for pharmacists and for pharmacy technicians. And then I've been just you know, I guess, looking more towards today's topic, I really been involved in the vaccine space and pharmacists involvement and pharmacy technicians involvement in vaccination. I'm even serving more recently on the adult ACIP work group for RSV vaccine, so kind of had had some really wonderful experiences to represent our profession in the world of vaccination.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So definitely, when we were talking about adding this episode, elizabeth was one of the first in my mind and she's so graciously agreed, even though this is the start of the semester and she's super busy. So we're very grateful for your time. She has definitely been in the immunization space for years and so we know she always has her finger on the pulse. So thanks again and let's just jump in, let's start talking.

Speaker 1:

There's a lot of stuff going on. We're getting ready for the height of the season, the flu season, covid, rsv, all those terrible things I was going to say good stuff, but it's not good stuff. None of it's good stuff. But you know ramping up and pharmacies are getting ready for this. So this is, I think, a very timely episode. One of the first things I want to do is just let's just touch on how let's all kind of breathe for a minute and realize how much we've evolved post-pandemic from, you know, offering immunization services If you can kind of speak to that from your experience and just how we kind of you know we were the knight in shining armor during COVID vaccination times and how that's really benefited pharmacy since.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think there's for sure since the pandemic things have really blossomed, at least for the pharmacy world, for the provision of immunizations. Prior to that, I think there's definitely a place where pharmacies would provide vaccines for patients and we always saw a lot of flu shots coming into the pharmacy and we were really pretty great about that. But then once the pandemic came and we were really the superheroes right of getting the COVID vaccine into the arms of people and saving lives, that really kind of changed the way that I think America overall viewed pharmacy, not only for immunizations and a lot of other things. And of course we have the PrEP Act which allowed for pharmacy technicians to be able to provide vaccines. We were already kind of in that space of allowed for pharmacy technicians to be able to provide vaccines. We were already kind of in that space of getting some pharmacy technicians. Some states were allowing legislation prior to the pandemic kind of starting to slowly roll that out.

Speaker 2:

But, then of course, you know the PrEP Act that completely exploded, and you know, then a lot of states were like, well, they've already been doing this, you know, so let's just you know, keep on doing this yeah let's let our legislation reflect that and that authority to reflect that, and so so, not only you know laws, but also just I think pharmacy has just now become a place where people come for their vaccines.

Speaker 2:

It's just, it's a normal standard. You know where it used to be. Maybe you know the doctor's office. It's the clinic. It's now the pharmacy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and I think I mean it's obviously great for the profession and I think it's obviously great for public health, you know, because it's been shown time and time again that pharmacies are the most accessible of all of the kind of healthcare you know entities and so it's really easy to just walk in at any time, long hours, almost every day of the week usually, and so it's really easy to just walk in at any time, long hours, almost every day of the week usually, and so it's really opportunistic for patients as well. So that's great. So what we really want to focus on today is talking about how you can continue with this trend as pharmacists and how we can make sure that we are staying in the public eye and being sure that we are ready for the flu season or respiratory season.

Speaker 1:

I guess we should start calling it, because so many things now, so yeah. So, elizabeth, let's talk just a little bit about any sort of new updates or policy changes or anything that's happening right now. That's kind of reshaping the vaccine landscape, and I know that there's a lot to talk about, so I'll kind of let you start, yeah, yeah, so there again.

Speaker 2:

I mean I think we talked a little bit. The purpose of this podcast isn't really to give everyone updates on, you know, the actual schedule and changes and things like that, and you know, the immunization update is a great place for that, that the impact offers, but for us at least, you know, just talking about changes in policy. So, as you know and this is not, this is just factual right, so this is not meant to at all be political or anything like that I just want to really stress that this is just kind of I think we all need to recognize what we're, what's happening and what you know we're seeing in healthcare and what we're seeing, what our patients are asking questions about and what they're seeing.

Speaker 2:

So, as you know, you know we had a new president and that then appointed a new director for health and human services and the director of health and human services has kind of just taken a little bit of a different approach to vaccine and vaccine approval and so for the first time really it was kind of unprecedented All of the basically the volunteers, because they're not paid, so these expert volunteers that sat on the ACIP, which was the body that provided the recommendations to the CDC for vaccine schedule and things like that, they were all abruptly dismissed and then they were replaced by individuals, different individuals that you know some will argue the argument is is don't have as maybe as much experience in the space. What. I'm not here to argue who has more experience or not, I will say the previous, because I worked with them, I knew them. The previous individuals had just were national experts and, you know, did just really know the space of vaccine. So once that happened also we had some changes to the recommendations that you know hadn't really gone through the normal ACIP approval process process and so once things like, and again, that's been unprecedented.

Speaker 2:

And so we've had some organizations that for years have always endorsed the ACIP schedule, the CDC schedule, the vaccine schedule that we all follow and we look at.

Speaker 2:

And so now organizations such as American Academy of Pediatrics and even including the American Pharmacists Association is a couple who have endorsed those recommendations in the past, have not actually endorsed the current vaccine schedule, primarily for at least you know, I think, what's gotten the most attention is the COVID-19 vaccine recommendations, removing the recommendation for healthy pregnant women.

Speaker 2:

So ACOG has come out with a statement that disagrees with that as well, as you know, for children 17 through six months, removing the recommendation for COVID-19 vaccine. And American Academy of Pediatrics also has come out and disagreed with that and, you know, actually hot off the press today. So again, this like turmoil, crazy, you know world we're living in. The AAP, american Academy of Pediatrics just today released their own immunization schedule that they published so yeah, so kind of just unprecedented times right now of, well, what schedule do you follow, how do you handle this, recommendations that weren't followed, the right process, and how our insurance company is doing that, and how should we as pharmacists interpret that? I think it's just really like I think we're gonna say this a lot just an unprecedented time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we've just not ever dealt with before and we're navigating through that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and, as Elizabeth said, this podcast is never meant to be political in any sense, it's never meant to share any sort of sense, it's never meant to, you know, share any sort of views that we, that one person has, or whatnot. It's just, it's just matter of fact. It's sharing the facts and what's happening. And so I think it's important that we are aware of that. And I think one of the biggest reasons, as you mentioned, obviously you know just the general workflow and like who's going to pay and what's what we give, what can't we give, whatever. But I think the biggest thing you mentioned, elizabeth, and you hit it right on the head is patients are asking and so we have to. We can't just be like, oh, I don't know, I haven't been following it lately or I'm not sure. So it's important that we are up to date and unfortunately, I don't think we have a lot of answers right yet I think we're still date and unfortunately, I don't think we have a lot of answers right yet. I think we're still, you know, muddling through that. But you know, I think what we're here to do today is just to really point out that again, unprecedented times, changes are happening and you're going to have to pay attention and really focus on the changes and make sure that you're up to date so that you can share timely and relevant information to your patients. So that's really helpful to kind of understand a little bit about that background.

Speaker 1:

And you know, one thing that you mentioned to me as we were talking before, and you mentioned it obviously here, I didn't realize that there were some entities that were not endorsing. You know that had always endorsed, and so I think that's also really important. Just to take note of, one thing we talked about before and I'll let you kind of speak on this too is a lot of, unfortunately, a lot of our state regulation and guidance is based on specific verbiage around ACIP recommendations. So what happens now with those kind of things?

Speaker 2:

It's a really great question and I think this is something that a lot of other healthcare providers. So, again, I served on the ACIP work group for the adult RSV vaccine and I worked with national experts and other healthcare providers across the country as we worked through data and try it like look through data and trials and to make the best recommendations to the ACIP for RSV vaccine for adults. And working with these colleagues across the country, I will say that not other healthcare professionals who maybe operate under standard of care, they just don't really understand. They don't understand why a pharmacist in Massachusetts can't do this but yet like someone else is, like they'll be on a call and they're from California and their pharmacist that they work with can do this. And why is it so different and why are we seeing different things across the country? And so I think, just before we get into this, I think it's really important for the listeners just to know that.

Speaker 2:

You know, sometimes we have to just educate other healthcare professionals about you know that we operate sometimes a little bit differently depending upon our state law. So, with that said, yeah, when a lot of our state laws and, you know, not everyone's we have some states that are operating under standard of care right now, which will just allow them the flexibility to be, able to provide the immunizations that you know is under that standard of care. However, when we have a state that states well, any pharmacist can provide any vaccine that's been recommended by the ACIP.

Speaker 2:

Well you know, just a year ago we were just talking about this. Like just a year ago that was a win. I mean, we were so excited when states had protocols and right like, oh, you can provide any vaccine that is recommended by the ACIP. And then we thought, ok, we've won.

Speaker 2:

Like this is great Pharmacists can provide anything, and pharmacy technicians too, and you know, whatever your state law is. And then now you know. So now what's what's happening is we have again, we have different, we have different views from different organizations on what vaccine should be provided. And you know, under the Affordable Care Act it states that pharmacies are third party payers, have to pay for or provide vaccines to individuals that you know, for vaccines that are recommended by the ACIP. Well, not, we don't. You know, every insurance company is probably going to interpret this a little bit different, but some will might say, well, I am not going to provide a vaccine to healthy pregnant, or I will. Or I should say I should do the flip thing. Some insurance companies will say, wow, the data says that you, that you know this, you are at a high risk condition when you're pregnant and therefore you should get. You know, the data will say that you should get the COVID-19 vaccine, and so ACOG is one example.

Speaker 2:

They've come out and said that that is how they feel and so you might have an OBGYN, who's like, okay, go get your COVID vaccine to that healthy adult or pregnant woman. And then all of a sudden they go to their pharmacy and their insurance company will cover it because they're like, yep, it's going to prevent. You know, like yep, we're going to cover that even though it's not. You know, with acip recommendations you have some, a lot of insurance companies that are still covering, and then the pharmacist like, well, I can't, I can't actually give it to you, because my state law says only things that are recommended by ACIP, and this one is no longer recommended for you.

Speaker 2:

And so what do you do? And so I think that's where we're going to see some of this, some of this just uncertainty with things we thought was fine and now all of a sudden we're like, well, what do we do and how do we handle that?

Speaker 1:

fine and now all of a sudden we're like, well, what do we do and how do we handle that? Yeah, and I think one thing and obviously we are also not telling you exactly how to practice or what you should do, because Elizabeth and I we're knowledgeable in a lot of things, but I don't know that we know all 50 states protocol for vaccination administration. But one thing that you could look at doing if you feel like your hands are a little tied, if how you were administering previously was under protocol, maybe you know, as long as you get a prescription from the doctor and so therefore you have a specific prescription for that specific patient, you know, then that is a little bit more of documentation that protects you and so forth, you're not operating, you know, specifically under the protocol anymore, you're specifically under a prescription, you're filling a prescription. So that's one way potentially around things. But again, we fought so hard to get past that, because that was what you know, we didn't want anymore was the restrictions of having to wait for a specific prescription every time. We wanted people to walk in and be like I'm supposed to get this, I need it, I want it, whatever. But in these as we've said before unprecedented times. That may just be how we have to, you know, kind of proceed for a little bit.

Speaker 1:

And Elizabeth, I think, hit it on the head earlier too, again with another statement where she was like this was a win a year ago and it's not a win anymore, you know. So I think that really focuses on what should we be advocating for in our states, and you know what verbiage and changes now need to happen, and a lot of states are embracing that standard of care model, which removes a lot of those restrictions. So that's a whole nother episode. We could get into all of that, but let's stay focused on preparing for the respiratory virus season. So again, I think, as Elizabeth has said, just to kind of summarize we are going through some changes.

Speaker 1:

There aren't a lot of answers right now, but what you need to know for sure as a pharmacist is you need to tread lightly, be careful, make sure that you're still following the letter of the law, in whatever state you're practicing, and making sure that you're making right decisions, because you know not to second guess yourself, but on a lot of these things over the next few weeks and this season, you might have to second guess and just be like, oh, am I still allowed to do that? Should I still be doing that? Do I need to get a prescription? You know whatever? So just be mindful of those things.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk a little bit about, elizabeth, if we can jump into some of the opportunities for us as pharmacists. I know we've kind of laid the groundwork for doom and gloom for this season, but let's talk about. We still have plenty of opportunities. We still are a great option for patients to get vaccinated. So let's talk a little bit about some of the changes in reimbursement and just making sure that you know we're taking care of that revenue for ourselves, but also, you know, increasing vaccine uptake as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I mean you know we're talking about. If we focus on respiratory season, probably your, I guess your you know leeway, or I should say the ambiguity or the gray area will probably be with the COVID-19 vaccine, however, influenza is still recommended, you know, for you know six months and older. And then, as well as you know, we have the recommendations for RSV that have been expanded and you know, again, making sure you're up to date on those, so those really haven't changed. And if you look at at least for pharmacy and like reimbursement and things like that, and if you look at even again, an opportunity is, you know the RSV vaccine is a Medicare Part D vaccine. It's covered under Medicare Part D, which is the pharmacy benefit, and so that vaccine, at least for adults, typically can't be geared for 65 and older. I should say it won't be covered under other insurance.

Speaker 1:

Anywhere else.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, and so when you have someone 65 and older, they're going to be going to the pharmacy, and that's like an opportunity for us, because that's who we're going to be having those conversations with. And then also, again, more of that ambiguity is going to be more with that COVID-19 vaccine, or particularly if you're immunizing individuals less than 18 years old to 17 and under. And then, of course, you know healthy, healthy, pregnant women, and so I think what you, you know where those recommendations have kind of changed, and so I think what we'll just want to reiterate is that, for opportunities is just in making sure you're still getting you know, as you've mentioned, josh, like still getting reimbursed and things like that. And I would just reach out to your main providers, like the third party, benefit managers, managers or the third-party you know payers that you typically will work with in your pharmacy and ask what they're covering you know. Just make sure that you know what they got.

Speaker 2:

You know are they? What recommendations are they following? Are they following AAP, are they following the ACIP, are they following the ACOG and all that we had talked a little bit earlier too, about. Well, could you do a test claim? And yeah, you could definitely, and that's one way to do it. But yet we've also heard a lot of stories from pharmacies. Who goes through, you know, on the front end, and then all of a sudden they get a kickback later. You know that's where the patient either gets charged the pharmacy gets charged for that and where it wasn't, where it's not paid and so you don't want that either. So I would just say, if you're kind of offering vaccines to that gray area where there's conflicting recommendations out there, just to make sure that you are getting paid, and one of the best ways is just to contact some of those main providers and figure that out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's great advice and I think it's important to make sure that I'm a very process-oriented person, so I think it's important to also make sure that you know I'm a very process-oriented person, so I think it's important to also make sure that you've got the steps down right. So, before you're investing in a lot of supply and you know, filling up your fridge and freezer with vaccines, you want to be sure that what you're carrying is going to be covered. So I think that's a good first step is to just, you know, sit down and it may take some time, but it could be a project for another member of your team. You know to reach out to those third party payers and just determine. You know, like you said, simple, as you know, what guidelines are you following? What are you going to be paying for so that you can make sure that you can get reimbursed for those services?

Speaker 1:

I love the call out to the fact of reiterating and driving home the point that the RSV vaccine for 65 and older is a Medicare Part D, so that again, they can only get that in the pharmacy. So you are the winner there. So another opportunity to really promote that service and to get more vaccines in the arms of our patients. Was there anything else in that space that you wanted to touch on? Elizabeth, I feel like I may have cut you off.

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry, or you know they were really busy. This is a really great time just to ensure that you know your screening checklists are up to date and your again your inventory, as you mentioned, or even that your emergency kit is, you know, refreshed and everything's in date there, and making sure that the pharmacy knows the workflow and how are you going to handle if you're, if you provide a lot of vaccines during this season of you know that September, october, november time frame. You know how you're going to adjust workflow and some of those things. So I think that's one thing just to keep in mind for an opportunity for pharmacies just to take this time and to get prepared. The other thing is just to understand. I think like that's what the purpose of this podcast is, right. So understanding kind of what's happening right now and when a patient comes to you, why they might have those questions you know so understanding if someone comes to you and they're like well, my insurance cover this.

Speaker 2:

That's why they're asking the question. Right, these differences in interpreting of the recommendations or even my pediatrician recommended this for my child, but I've heard the CDC doesn't Like what. Why and you're my trusted there's these conflicting. I'm going to you because I trust you more than anybody. How many times have we heard that right?

Speaker 2:

I trust you more than anyone you know any other healthcare professional, so being able to have that conversation with them and making, helping them make the recommendation that's best for them. So I think those are all just things right now to be aware of and to be prepared for.

Speaker 1:

That's great. I love the call out on, you know, using these next few weeks before the season really hits to kind of prepare and you know we all know we're not going to, you know, tread on it lightly, like it it's. It's hard on workflow sometimes and so you know, even with the additional expanded responsibilities and roles of pharmacy technicians to administer, it still sometimes takes a toll on workflow when you're taking even, you know, when you're taking a tech or a pharmacist out of workflow and so, like you said, just kind of adjusting for that, trying to figure out different ways in which you can accommodate those adjustments so that you can continue to give the vaccinations to patients when they're asking for them. So that's great and good. Call out as well on making sure emergency kit is up to date, making sure that those things you know nothing's expired, you have everything that you need in there. Those are few and far between types of occurrences, but it's always something that, when it does happen, you want to be sure that you are prepared for it.

Speaker 2:

So just a good time to make sure your staff is all aware of your policies and procedures right yeah. They're aware of the changes. You know always a good time to refresh that needle. Stick injury, refresh skill.

Speaker 2:

I mean that's actually like a recommendation that should have a little quick refresher and even though you provide a lot of immunizations, like, let's refresh, like you know, safety needles, the safety needles we're using. I mean, whatever that might be, it's just a great, great time just to and document that in your policies and procedures that you've done Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

That's a great call out too. It could be that you know your wholesaler is supplying a different safety needle this year to you, or the one you previously used is too expensive now and so you've changed. And yeah, it's really important to make sure that everybody on the team is aware of how those work. You know practice with one making sure that sharps containers are, you know, not overflowing and ready for the season so they can be filled up again. So, yeah, it's a great time to just kind of do a little housekeeping and making sure that everybody is ready.

Speaker 1:

One thing we talked about I want to spend just a couple minutes on Elizabeth is we talked about how you know, unfortunately, all the verbiage and things that we used to say and advocate for and get bills passed, and everything that may need to change a little bit. You know we may need to refocus and maybe everybody does need to get on the standard of care model bandwagon, you know. So can you speak to anything like that? I know that a lot of our listeners are super involved and do want to make sure that they're advocating and advocating for the right thing, so any kind of guidance you can offer there would be great.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, at least for me personally, I feel like the last few months have just reiterated a new problem. Right, we talked about this a little bit before, but we thought we had a solution.

Speaker 1:

And then all of a sudden.

Speaker 2:

Now we're met with a problem with that solution. How many times has that happened in life? Or you think you haven't figured out, and then it's like whoops, I never expected that coming.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, I mean, and why should we? Because ACIP was the gold standard for, you know, years and years and years, even if not decades, and so we thought that if that verbiage was in there, then you know we were golden.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, it even covered you know, like when the ACIP recommended something even covered, like the emergency use authorizations and things like that. Yeah so, but I think it's just more or less of just having that conversation of if something's not working for you in your state right now, call the right people like call your board, call your pharmacy association, call your college, like whoever it is that is your advocate. Maybe it's a legislature, a legislator that's in your district, whatever whoever that is making sure that they're just aware of the challenge that you're facing. So if you are not able to provide care, for whatever reason, at the level that you want to be able to provide it, because of some law or some statute or some regulation, this would be just a really good time to give those examples of what's happening and why it's happening and how and what would be a better model for you and your state and your workforce?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and you know we don't. You know you, I'm talking to the listener. You don't need to have the answer per se, it just needs to be that you're bringing up the question, bringing up the point, bringing up the question, bringing up the point. I can tell you right now, I know for a fact state associations are actively preparing what it is they want to push through in the next cycle of things, and so this is a great time to really get your ideas and your vision out there as well, and it's really important that we have a lot of input, because everybody practices in a different region and you have a different type of patient population and your community needs are different, and so I think it's really important that you know, and we preach this all the time don't just sit back and say, well, I'm just one person, I can't, really it doesn't matter if I don't get involved, somebody else will handle it. But I think it's really important that we all take a chance at speaking out, because it's important to make sure that our communities and our patients are represented. So, yeah, Okay, so we pretty much touched on some of the challenges and we've hopefully given some strategies for overcoming those barriers. So we've talked about navigating that payer variability and making sure that we're touching base with some payers up front to make sure what they're following, what they're covering, what they're paying for. And I think you know it goes without saying.

Speaker 1:

I think I've said this 1000 times on the podcast in some format whatever is happening, document right.

Speaker 1:

Like it's super important to make sure that you're documenting everything and then also adapting to those changes in vaccine recommendations.

Speaker 1:

We've talked about how today, unfortunately, we don't really have a lot of answers, so what we're challenging you to do is to remain updated, Like you're going to have to stay focused and you're going to have to come back and listen to the updates and make sure that you're on the right page so that you can provide the best care and answer all the questions from your patients. And then the last thing I want to talk about just because it's always good to address, is overcoming either barriers to vaccine access through, you know, equity or other issues, and then just hesitancy in general. You know, I think, unfortunately, I think we're going to see a lot of people latch on to some of these changes right now and saying that it's going to increase the hesitancy of receiving some vaccines. I think that's my opinion, but you know, you always have some great insight as to how we can overcome some of those hesitancy or vaccine uptake challenges. So I'll let you speak on those for a few minutes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I think you know, nationally we've seen a decline in vaccination rates and I think one thing we could probably even speak to if we're trying to talk with our patients or advocating for vaccination is kind of what we're seeing, right. So I mean you know talking about what we're seeing with measles across the country and what we're seeing.

Speaker 2:

I mean last know talking about what we're seeing with measles across the country and what we're seeing.

Speaker 2:

I mean last year's influenza season was horrendous and look at the vaccination rates for influenza. I mean. So we're seeing that you know what's happening and then we're seeing the results of of that and so you know the results of decrease in vaccination rates, and so I think that's a really great, you know good opportunity for patients when you're just, you know, advocating or talking about vaccination and making those recommendations. I also think that you know if you're, if you're again, if you're vaccinating a certain population maybe it's the children or maybe it's, you know, pregnant women and with COVID-19 vaccine and and you have providers or you yourself, you know that the insurance companies are paying for it and you're wanting to recommend those to those patients. Understanding the science behind that and both AP and ACOG have done really great publications and you know statements it's the science behind why these patients and these populations should be vaccinated and so just kind of just making sure you're educated and you're able to speak to that, and then of course it's okay to not always have the answers.

Speaker 2:

I mean I think it's just remembering that it's okay to listen to patients. Well, of course it's okay to listen to patients, but you know, making sure that we're listening to their concerns. And then if they're asking you a question and you don't know the answer, that's okay, because I I mean, I'm in this space a lot and I still get asked questions that I'm like wow, I have never heard of that before, especially with social media and misinformation and it is okay to say you know what I really care about you and I'm going to take some time to make sure I'm answering your question adequately.

Speaker 2:

I don't think that that's correct. However, I'm going to take some time. Would you mind if I get back to you?

Speaker 2:

So I think, just remembering everyone that it's okay to do that, and then, if you are unable to provide a vaccine for a patient because of you know what's happening right now and a patient desires a vaccine, for that access, just ensuring that you know where they can get the vaccine or how they can get the vaccine so you mentioned, like whether that's with a prescription to you at the pharmacy that you can provide, or whether that's through another healthcare provider or you know, referral, or maybe it's a public health unit or clinic that has it, or whatever.

Speaker 2:

that might be Just making sure that you kind of know where to send a patient if they're wanting a vaccine that you can't, unfortunately, provide due to your state regulations right now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because ultimately, I mean, we're just wanting vaccine uptake in the community, right? Yes, it'd be great if it was through our pharmacy services and through pharmacy in general. But, yeah, you bring up a great point. It's important to make sure that we are promoting access to vaccines, regardless of whether or not it's something that we're able to offer, because, as healthcare professionals, we understand the importance of vaccine uptake. So, yeah, that's great. Okay, well, I think we've touched on everything that I had on my list. Was there anything that I missed, Elizabeth, that you wanted to be sure we talked about?

Speaker 2:

No, I don't, I don't think so. I mean, I think I would just kind of reiterate just again that you know, checking in with your own community and your own state right, checking in with your state association, your state board of pharmacy, knowing how to handle these situations. You know, for the pharmacists and the technicians Staying up to date with your own Department of Health within your state to keeping track of rates and what's happening, and you know they're usually really good about providing updates from the from the federal level as well. So I would just say you know that's just my last. My last plug, as we're going into the season, is just, you know, taking a few moments just to refresh and maybe, instead of you know scrolling on your phone, looking at social media or whatever, you scroll and just do a quick update on your Department of Health or your state association or your word of pharmacy or whatnot Great advice.

Speaker 1:

We all have five or 10 minutes we can take away from social media scrolling to do other things. Yeah Well, one thing that I wanted to mention really quick. Elizabeth mentioned it earlier and I do want to reiterate. She mentioned that there is an annual immunization update that we offer. It is currently in the catalog as an on-demand course, so be sure that if you were unable to attend the webinars that happened in mid-August the live webinars be sure that you're listening to the on-demand version of that annual immunization update. It goes into a lot more of the new vaccines that are on the market, how they differ from current vaccines, talking about schedules and working through some case studies to kind of help with those informed decisions that you're helping your patients make. So super great information. So be sure you check out that on-demand course as well. So last question to you, elizabeth what do you think the game changer is here? We always like to wrap it up it's the Game Changers podcast. So what's the Game Changer?

Speaker 2:

I think the Game Changer is we're just in a time right now of just uncertainty and we're in it, and so just the Game Changer for us is just making sure that we're staying up to date, that we're listening, we're leaning in, we're advocating where we need to advocate for our own profession and allowing us to take care of our patients and also, yeah, just knowing that there is uncertainty and it's okay to. If you're feeling uncertain right now, that's okay. Like that's a lot, of, a lot of people all the way up to the very top are feeling uncertain and how things are being handled, and so just ask, ask questions, be curious and, you know, find those resources that you need Yep.

Speaker 2:

Stay informed Exactly.

Speaker 1:

That's great. Well, thanks, know. Find those resources that you need. Stay informed Exactly that's great. Well, thanks again, Elizabeth, it's always a pleasure. I appreciate you giving your time to us today.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Good luck with the respiratory season coming up.

Speaker 1:

Yes, everyone, yes, get out there, get those shots in arms. We need them. If you're a CE Plan subscriber, be sure to claim your CE credit for the episode of Game Changers by logging in at CEimpactcom. And, as always, have a great week and keep learning. I can't wait to dig into another game-changing topic with you all next week.